TEHELKA: Has it happened to you before?
MAJ. S.J. SINGH: Why not? So that's why we are very cautious about…. When we handle the subject, we handle it at the appropriate level. To start with, associate them right from the beginning…word 'go'. So the…the meter, as I say, is down from the moment the word 'go'.
TEHELKA: Okay.

Needless to say, all this has a deeper significance. For in the lobby of the five-star hotel we are in, Major Singh has Major General Satnam Singh (GOC), infantry chief of the Drass-Kargil sector in Jammu & Kashmir, based in Nimu, waiting for us. The General is on leave and an old friend of Major Singh. Under infantry chief Major General Shankar Prasad, he will be responsible for the trials of the HHTs. The infantry was already conducting trials for Thomson-CSF and El-Op. Major Singh, indeed, was all for involving the top brass from the very beginning.

TEHELKA [to Satnam Singh]: How long will the evaluation trials take, like…the Thomson and the El-Op?
MAJ. GEN. SATNAM SINGH: See, we can't be very specific about it. It is based on the type of equipment we have…you know, like, if you are dealing with these Image Intensifiers, they take much shorter time, than probably a weapon system will take. Because, you know, it depends upon what are you trying to see.

TEHELKA: But…it's everything is eventually returned, obviously.
MAJ. GEN. SATNAM SINGH: Yes, obviously.
TEHELKA: Yes.

MAJ. GEN. SATNAM SINGH: All the equipment…it's all in the understanding. All the equipment that comes for trial is basically of the firm. If they give it to us, then it all goes back.
TEHELKA: Yeah, at no-cost and…

MAJ. GEN. SATNAM SINGH: So, you carry on trials, see your performances that have been identified by the company. See what we need. We either say 'yes', or we say 'no'. Or we give, ki all right, if you can…if the company can give us what we need. Because some people have the capability to modify the equipment and things.
TEHELKA: Yeah.

[Pause]

TEHELKA: What is the kind of…biggest problem you are facing with them…if at all? Weight?
MAJ. GEN. SATNAM SINGH: Problems, in what way?

TEHELKA: Weight? Bulk performance…?
MAJ. GEN. SATNAM SINGH: With what?

TEHELKA: The hand-held….
MAJ. GEN. SATNAM SINGH: The imager?
TEHELKA: Yeah.

MAJ. GEN. SATNAM SINGH: No, it's the quality of image that counts. And, also the other criteria is the portability. You see, if it is going to be a hand-held Image Intensifier, it should be something that doesn't add too much of weight.
TEHELKA: Yeah, yeah. Obviously, obviously. That's where we score. Yeah.

TEHELKA [interrupting]: Are you happy with the evaluation of the other equipment that has come up so far? Thomson and El-Op?
MAJ. GEN. SATNAM SINGH: It's…it's…it's not been fully accepted as such. It has still to come to my area for trials.

TEHELKA: Okay. And this one, El-Op?
MAJ. GEN. SATNAM SINGH: El-Op has also not come to me. They're still at the lower levels. Trials are going on.

TEHELKA: Lower levels meaning?
MAJ. GEN. SATNAM SINGH: Means the plains…
LT. COL. BERRY: Terrain-wise…terrains.

MAJ. GEN. SATNAM SINGH: But they still have to move up to my area.
TEHELKA: Okay.

MAJ. GEN. SATNAM SINGH: To the high altitude trials. So we haven't really filed them off. So I can't give you an opinion on that at all.
TEHELKA: Okay.

MAJ. GEN. SATNAM SINGH: But yes, we have feedbacks of the trials of the desert region. There are some problems there in that portion.
TEHELKA: Okay.

The West End President Alvin D'Souza lets his imagination loose, highlighting thereby how incredibly casual and callous critical defence purchases have become. He talks about how they could introduce an audio factor in the HHTs.

TEHELKA: What we can do in ours, which is very rare, is that we can put in movement locators. So immediately there's human movement, there will be a beep that goes off.
MAJ. GEN. SATNAM SINGH: Yeah, it's something like the Battlefield Service Radars.
TEHELKA: Yeah.

MAJ. GEN. SATNAM SINGH: It gives you sound…
TEHELKA: Exactly.

MAJ. GEN. SATNAM SINGH: If there's something…
TEHELKA: Yeah, you're alerted immediately, so…

LT.COL. BERRY: An alert sound comes…?
TEHELKA: Yeah. There's a beep.

Of course, it would be interesting if one asked General
Satnam Singh directly about the evaluation procedure.

TEHELKA: So you've been involved in the evaluation procedure earlier?
MAJ. GEN. SATNAM SINGH: Yeah, yeah.

TEHELKA: Of various products?
LT.COL BERRY [answering for Satnam Singh]: A number of times...

TEHELKA: Basically you are in the field job?
MAJ. GEN. SATNAM SINGH: Yes, I am in the operational job.

TEHELKA: Operation. Which is in infantry…hardcore infantry…?
MAJ. GEN. SATNAM SINGH: Yes, basically from the infantry. But then you know, we keep on changing our roles. Today I'm operational commander, tomorrow I may be on staff.
TEHELKA: Okay.

LT.COL. BERRY: If you shake hand, it is shaken forever. Otherwise, people will say "sorry". Like he told you that first thing is for them resolution. He has given you a feeler already that "Look, if your resolution is okay, you are okay." Absolutely. Because on resolution, he cannot force…cannot compromise.
TEHELKA: Okay.

R.K. JAIN: I am the national treasurer, I have given you the card. The treasurer is close to the boss because for money matters he has to talk to the treasurer only. Even if he talks to 10 others, he has to talk to the treasurer.
TEHELKA: Bilkul, naturally.

R.K. JAIN: Please consider that it is not hidden from the treasurer that the party is getting money. Money is withdrawn when I pass the cheque, when I sign it. And why should I lie? I would take money only in lieu of work done for you.

R.K. JAIN: Armoured recovery vehicle was my first case which I did it for Slovakia.
TEHELKA: Okay.

R.K. JAIN: When George was Defence Minister for the first time. After one year, then he became another Defence Minister.
TEHELKA: Yeah, yeah.

R.K. JAIN: This is I am talking about the first time when he became the defence minister. As soon as he became the defence minister, after six or seven months…
TEHELKA: Okay.

R.K. JAIN: Suresh Nanda approached me for armoured recovery vehicle. He was the agent for the Slovakian company.

TEHELKA: What was the product?
R.K. JAIN: Armoured recovery vehicle.
TEHELKA: Oh! Yeah, yeah.

R.K. JAIN: There were 250 vehicles were there. The tender was worth say 250 crores.
TEHELKA: Okay.

R.K. JAIN: There were two…three, competitions - Slovakia, Czechoslovakia and there was a company from Poland.
TEHELKA: Okay.

R.K. JAIN: Boomer.
TEHELKA: Yeah, yeah, that jet plane and everything.

R.K. JAIN: Nanda approached me. Czechoslovakia's price was the lowest, second Slovakian, third was the Poland.
TEHELKA: Haan, Haan.

R.K. JAIN: He said, "I will give you one crore rupees in advance…"
TEHELKA: Okay.

R.K. JAIN: "You get disapproved the last one…Czechoslovakia because they are so lower that we cannot match their price."
TEHELKA: Okay.

R.K. JAIN: "If you can push him out. Delegation is going on to the…delegation has been ordered to go to Czechoslovakia. Stop this delegation, and technically reject this company. Here are the documents."
TEHELKA: Hmm.

R.K. JAIN: "By which it's proved that this company is closed for the last two years. They will start only after getting this order."
TEHELKA: Yeah, yeah.

R.K. JAIN: "I will give one crore rupees. And I will give you…if they are technically disapproved, then you are my agent."
TEHELKA: Yeah.

R.K. JAIN: "For this particular…perks…and I will you so much of commission."
TEHELKA: Okay.

R.K. JAIN: I said, "Fine." He gave me the correspondence. I took the correspondence to George.
TEHELKA: Hmm.

R.K. JAIN: And he said, "All right, I'll reject it." He is a very intelligent man. Next day he called Rajiv Goba.
TEHELKA: Hmm.

R.K. JAIN: He said, "Ring up to this Indian Embassy in Czechoslovakia and find out whether this company is closed for the last two years or not."
TEHELKA: Hmm.

R.K. JAIN: And he rang up. It was closed.

TEHELKA: Hmm.

R.K. JAIN: He told me, "…said the company is closed for the last two years. There is no point of a delegation to go. And therefore this company is technically disqualified."

[Jain's phone is ringing.]

TEHELKA: Okay, it is manipulated.
R.K. JAIN: He wrote straight away on the file himself. He never goes and orders to a Joint Secretary. He wrote it himself, and sent the file back. Nanda gave me one crore rupees. He called me, "Yes, Mr. Jain, the file has come down. Like you know George…"
TEHELKA: Yeah, yeah.

R.K. JAIN: "The file is down, my work has been done, I am very happy. You take your one crore rupees." I said, "Fine, give it to me."
TEHELKA: Yeah, this kind of work.

R.K. JAIN: After that…
TEHELKA: Yeah.

R.K. JAIN: After that, the bugger could not get lowest into the PNC. Poland become the lowest.
TEHELKA: Okay.

R.K. JAIN: Then he started running around. "Mr. Jain…" I was very angry, "You bastard." And on the instruction of George Fernandes, Rajiv Goba attended that The story behind Jain vaulting himself into the treasurer's post of
the Samata Party is too interesting to be left out.

TEHELKA: Basically, traditionally you are a businessman?
R.K. JAIN: Yes, just entered into the politics two years back. Not merely entered, but George Fernandes selected me. He called me and said, "You become my treasurer." I used to go to ministers as a industrialist goes at times. One of my friend came and said, "Look, I am going to George Fernandes." I said, "He is a very good man. I want to see him, I have never seen him." I went to him the first day. The next day I got a phone call in the night at 7.30. "Mr Jain, can you come and see me right now?" I said, "Yes." Actually, in the first meeting he said, "Mr. Jain, I want two-and-a-half lakh rupees." When I went without appointment…when I went with my friend, "I needed money. Can you arrange 2.5 lakh?" I said, "What are you talking? You are such a big man. You are asking for 2.5 lakh rupees? I can't give you. You should have asked for 10 lakh, 20 lakh. What is 2.5 lakh?" Then he says, "No, no, no. I am need 2.5 lakh. Can you give it to me?" I said, "Yeah, I'll give it. Give me two-three days' time." Next day again he phoned to me. I thought he'll ask for more. He had agreed for 2.5, now will he ask for more? He said, "Mr. Jain, I want to make you my national treasurer." That is how I became the treasurer.

Later, Jain explains to the President of West End how he lobbied with Defence Minister George Fernandes to get the Air Jet Trainer project for Samata Party.

R.K. JAIN: You know I worked for your project initially here. I started with this project called Air Jet Trainers.
TEHELKA: Okay.

R.K. JAIN: Air jet trainers. And basically, you know there are three major manufacturers. Americans are also there, but since it is banned from America, so they were not competing. The British Hawk, Alpha Jet from France and MAPO-MiG from Russia.
TEHELKA: Yeah.

R.K. JAIN: So the…I…this MAPO people, MiG people, approached me. I went to the boss. I said, "Look, sir, this is something…."
TEHELKA: Mr. Fernandes?

R.K. JAIN: Haan. "…This is a very big job, worth of 4,000 crores, 3,600, to be precise…."
TEHELKA: Okay.

R.K. JAIN (continuing): "And…if you bless me, then I'll take the agency from them and do it." He said, "Look, give me a time. Give me some time. Let me check." So he checked up. He came back to me after two-three days. He said, "Mr Jain, I have checked up, and I feel that they are going to stand the lowest…."
TEHELKA:…Chance of….

R.K. JAIN: They are already lowest.
TEHELKA: In terms of price?

R.K. JAIN: In terms of price.
TEHELKA: Okay.

R.K. JAIN: There is a good chance that the order will go to them. Catch hold of them.
TEHELKA: This is the MAPO-MiGs?

R.K. JAIN: MAPO-MiGs. "You can tie-up with them."
TEHELKA: Yeah.

R.K. JAIN: Then I went to the boss again. I spoke to the MAPO people, MiG people. I said, "Look, well, I can do it."He said, "All right, but you have to get us introduced to George Fernandes. In the sense fix up an appointment. Official appointment. And we will go and see. If you are able to do it, then you will be our representative in this particular deal in India."
TEHELKA: Yeah.

R.K. JAIN: I went to the boss again. I said, "Look, this is the problem." He said, "But they should trust you. You are a treasurer. What is the point of exposing me? Why do you want to expose me?" I said, "I am not exposing you because I am not asking for unofficial appointment. I am asking for a official appointment." He said, "All right". I said, "This is not such a big deal, why they should believe you?"
TEHELKA: Hmm.

R.K. JAIN: He said, "All right, but you can send…."
TEHELKA: When was this? Last year?

R.K. JAIN: Last to…this is…one-and-a-half year's time.
TEHELKA: Yeah, yeah.

R.K. JAIN: Then I…told…spoke to MiG people. He said, "All right, Mr. Jain, after meeting, we'll give you the agency agreement." Then we talked about. I said, "Look, I want 10 per cent commission." The chairman said, "No, Mr. Jain, we can't give you more than seven per cent. Because seven per cent is…. This is a big project of 3,600 crores. Though commission will be higher, but some part of the commission will go to… I mean…wherever it goes. It's none of your headache".
TEHELKA: Yeah, yeah.

R.K. JAIN (continuing): "…But you are going to get seven per cent…."
TEHELKA: Yeah, yeah.

R.K. JAIN: And then I said, "No, I can't do it for less than 10 per cent whether the deal is small or big because in this particular deal the PM is also going to be involved at one stage. It needs a Cabinet-approval. So…my party will expect at least three per cent. PM house will expect at least three per cent. And how do I survive in seven per cent? Then there are bureaucrats, myself, and everybody is there. If you narrow it down, you say two per cent, two per cent…. In India you can't negotiate with ministers. Which means…. Normally, they try and keep three per cent and upto two per cent depending upon size…." And they said, "All right…you…." He went and met George Fernandes. And George Fernandes was laughing to me next day. He said, "The bugger was nervous, he was sweating. The chairman of MiG was sweating." He said, "Then I realised that he is not at ease. So I had to start discussions, I had to, you know, talk to him for 15 to 20 minutes." He was very happy. He came back and he said, "Look, yes, it's all right. Look, you come to Russia, we will sign the agreement." So I flew to Russia. Though I am not allowed to flew without the permission of George.
TEHELKA: Okay.

R.K. JAIN: But I went to Jaya Jaitly. I said, "Madam, they are calling me to Moscow." She said, "No, no, Mr. Jain, it's not safe. You don't fly because you see, you are our treasurer. People are keeping an eye on you." I said, "Look, they have called…unless we sign an agreement tomorrow, I do the job for them…and they turn out…they don't pay me, then where do I go? Party will say 'where's our commission?' What do I do?" [gestures] She said, "All right, go, go." So I went there. The chairman and all seven-eight people of that MiG company…all chiefs and some managers…came and attended the meeting. Then he said, "Mr. Jain, I did a mistake there. You see, we cannot sign an agreement today on the air jet trainers. But we have small, small few jobs like upgradation of MiGs. Why don't you take these small jobs first, and in the process we'll make an agreement with the bigger one." I…I was in a… you know, my mood got spoilt because I took the permission from the boss, I flew down to Moscow to sign an agreement…."
TEHELKA: The problem was from the MiG guys?

R.K. JAIN: Yeah, the MiG…. They're not wanting to sign the agreement at that time. They said you start with the smaller projects and bigger projects…
TEHELKA: Why was that?

R.K. JAIN: Because they were not confident of providing all the papers and licences, which are needed to approve them technically.
TEHELKA: Okay.

R.K. JAIN: There was some problem then with the flying hours.
TEHELKA: Okay.

R.K. JAIN: So the air-sea worthiness certificates was not, you know, was not there.

TEHELKA: It's tough luck.
R.K. JAIN: So they….

TEHELKA: You didn't manage Hawk? You didn't go and talk to them? You should talk to the best people in the business.
R.K. JAIN: No. That Sudeep Chaudhary. That guy approached me. He is the man who was looking after the Hawk interest as well as the MiG.

TEHELKA (interrupts): Explain to him…the East-West…
R.K. JAIN (continuing): They're very clear people.

TEHELKA: East…. This is the same guy who was involved in the Sukhoi deal?
R R.K. JAIN: Yeah, Sukhoi deal.

TEHELKA: Exactly. You know everything… [laughs].
R.K. JAIN: Sudeep Choudhary.

TEHELKA: Yeah.
R.K. JAIN: Because, there you see, he is representative of the Sukhoi.

TEHELKA: Is he a businessman?
R.K. JAIN: Yeah, businessman.

TEHELKA: Okay.
R.K. JAIN: So he was representing both the companies. MiG as well as the Hawk.

TEHELKA: And he knew?
R.K. JAIN: Yeah. Because I met him first time in front of the Pushkin, the chairman of MiG.

TEHELKA: Okay.
R.K. JAIN: He was sitting in his room. He spent total money of bringing all the MiGs and air jet trainers from Moscow to India. The complete money, which was around more than one crore rupees, was spent by Choudhary because Russians had no money.

TEHELKA: To bring what? The papers and everything…
R.K. JAIN: The planes from…for demonstration…

TEHELKA: Okay, okay. You mean the fuel and the carting….
R.K. JAIN: In Bangalore.

TEHELKA: Okay. Assembling…
R.K. JAIN: He spent the total money. That's what that Pushkin told me and next day he said, "Mr. Jain, why don't we meet tomorrow?" I said, "All right, but what is your basic purpose?" "No, no, come and see me tomorrow you…you will be benefitted." I said, "All right, I will come tomorrow." I went to Sudeep Chaudhary's house.

TEHELKA: He stays in Delhi?
R.K. JAIN: Yeah, in Delhi.

TEHELKA: Okay.
R.K. JAIN: He says, "Mr. Jain, why you want to go with MiG? They will not get the order. Both of us, let us…let us make an understanding. Why competition? If you want, I can give you a letter where all positive points of the British Hawks are there." I said, "When you are confident this order will go to British Hawk, then why are you running after the MiG?" He said, "This is India. You never know anything can happen at what…at any time. Why should I allow any competitor to come in?"

TEHELKA: Okay.
R.K. JAIN: "It's fine. But I am sorry. I cannot shake hands with British Hawk. I was told by George Fernandes that the order will go to MiG." I refused. I said, "No, and…I don't like to run around…run after two companies in the same job. I have feeling that I must work for MiG. So, I am sorry I cannot work for British Hawk. If you have another projects where you want my help, where I am not tied up with anybody, definitely I'll help you." Then he gave me three names. One was Sagem. It's a French company. I got it the order. Sagem.

TEHELKA: Israeli company?
R.K. JAIN: Yeah, French company.

TEHELKA: For what? This is the…Sagem also…that's what he is asking.

R.K. JAIN: The other order was the upgradation of gun from 130mm to 155mm. That was from a company called Sultam from Israel.
TEHELKA: This is medium artillery?

R.K. JAIN: Yeah, artillery. Basically it comes under artillery. Medium is.... This was… I did that job also. The file was running from the Narasimha Rao government and nobody was taking a decision for buying or not to buy.
TEHELKA: And Mr. Fernandes said, "I will do it"!

R.K. JAIN: "I will do it." And he did it.
TEHELKA: It's a great way of Fernandes!

R.K. JAIN: They got this order in the month of March this year.

TEHELKA: Just give that. That is exact…. Abdul Kalam is involved. The Abdul Kalam is written a letter to Mr. George Fernandes that we can use indigenous and….

[Interruption]

TEHELKA: Who is Mr. Kalam?
R.K. JAIN: Scientific advisor to PM.

TEHELKA (continuing): Just explain that, that is…that is wrong! You can't imagine that is…what he has done!
R.K. JAIN: Our help at times is a very big help. Like Barak was the case. Barak, you know is a system which is set on the ships, for Naval ships. And it is air-to-air…surface-to-surface missile. The file was going on for purchase of seven Barak, plus the ammunition from a company called Rafael in Israel. Abdul Kalam…the file went twice. I told you…DRDO, the head of the research and development wing is the scientific advisor to the defence, Abdul Kalam. Nowadays Atre is there. Abdul Kalam has retired. So, he wrote on the file that, "Look, we are developing our Prithvi or Trishul. Trishul missiles. I think, according to my…according to me, the Prithvi should be…or Trishul should be set up on our naval ships. There is no point of buying this imported system Barak."

TEHELKA: That is not missile. That is a system.
R.K. JAIN: Again, I just do my job. How do I do? The scientific advisor is also on the above of George Fernandes now. He gave me one crore rupees. "You keep it with you. Whether this order is being done or not done, I don't care. But I want to give it to the party. You give it and please try and help me. Money is not a problem." I went and paid…. I told Jaya Jaitly, "Look, so much of money he has already given to me now. If you accept it, that means we have to do something for the party. If you don't accept it, well, I'll go and give it back. But only accept it when we feel that we can do something. Otherwise, he won't say anything to me, but he won't feel good. He won't feel nice." She said, "Give me time for two days." She kept the money. After two days, she says, "I've spoken to the boss. Don't worry. He said he'll make everything fine." The file was called. He wrote on the file: "Vikrant is our main ship, is the main vessel."

TEHELKA (interrupts): That's your aircraft carrier?
R.K. JAIN: Yeah. "Pakistan has the surface-to-surface missiles. And our ship is very well equipped because we have…air landing…air take-off…."

TEHELKA: Yeah.
R.K. JAIN: (continuing): "We can't leave this ship, you know, like this. So in my suggestion, in my view, at least one system should be purchased. And put on our main vessel."

TEHELKA (interrupts): That is INS Viraat also. He can give that to….
R.K. JAIN: Yeah, yes, INS Viraat.

TEHELKA: Yeah, INS Viraat.
R.K. JAIN: Yeah, not Vikrant. INS Viraat. Sorry.

TEHELKA: This is for INS Viraat.
R.K. JAIN: INS Viraat. And he told me, "Look, Mr. Jain, I'm doing it, I'm overruling the comments of the scientific advisor, so it is not good to allow seven pieces in one go. Because we have seven ships. Naval...real seven ships who are real fighters. But tell your company that they should try and push from the down level. That after one is approved, 'No, no, we can't do with one. All ships are very important. Please allow us to buy all seven.' Then I'll give them the permission to buy and purchase the rest of the six." Same thing happened after six months. The file went to the boss again because Nanda managed to, you know, from the bottom he managed to get a letter in the name of George Fernandes, that "This is very important. Without this we can't survive." So….

TEHELKA: So Mr. Kalam took the money?
R.K. JAIN: No.

TEHELKA: Not Kalam?
R.K. JAIN: Not Kalam. Kalam, because see Kalam was overruled by George Fernandes.

TEHELKA: Okay, okay.
R.K. JAIN: So…

TEHELKA: How much was the deal worth?
R.K. JAIN: 560 crore. Eighty crore was one piece. The deal is still going on. The PNC is going on. It's not yet through. The final negotiation is going on.

TEHELKA: The percentages are decided, is it?
R.K. JAIN: Yeah. At least what my party is going to get, what I'm going to get…it's all been decided.

TEHELKA: Three per cent. Is it?
R.K. JAIN: That three per cent to the party.

TEHELKA: Okay, okay.
R.K. JAIN: But for myself also…

TEHELKA: That's right. G…G…George Fernandes had nothing to do with it? Okay?
R.K. JAIN: (nods his head): Maybe the PM must have got some money and forwarded to George Fernandes also. That I…that I…

TEHELKA: Forwarded it to you and not to him?
R.K. JAIN: Not necessarily because sometimes they have given the…

[Both laugh]

TEHELKA: You normally use Zurich or which place?
R.K. JAIN: No, I normally…for this kind of transactions, I normally use a different man...a third man.

TEHELKA: Okay.
R.K. JAIN: See I'm only concerned…like I talk to somebody in Delhi.

TEHELKA: Okay.
R.K. JAIN: He will come and sit with me. He will give me the guarantee of that amount, which I'm giving it to him in his account.

TEHELKA: Abroad?
R.K. JAIN: I have a guarantee here.

TEHELKA: Okay. Bank guarantee?
R.K. JAIN: Not bank guarantee.

TEHELKA: Verbal guarantee.
R.K. JAIN: Verbal guarantee with one or two common friends…

TEHELKA: Okay.
R.K. JAIN: …so that he can't get away.

TEHELKA: Okay.
R.K. JAIN: As soon as the money is transferred, we show him the slip. The money is being transferred.

TEHELKA: Then he gives you the equivalent in Indian rupees.
R.K. JAIN: Then he gives…

TEHELKA: Okay.
R.K. JAIN: That's the way they do it. Sometimes my brother needs money abroad. All right? Then I push it to my brother's account.

TEHELKA: Okay. Which is the biggest transaction you have done?
R.K. JAIN: I've done the Sultam.

TEHELKA: How much was it worth?
R.K. JAIN: That was 600 crores. Three per cent for me.

TEHELKA: 20 crores.
R.K. JAIN: For me it was just half a per cent. [TEHELKA laughs]. I tried to explain Jaya-ji "I can do it in two per cent" because he said four per cent. Actually half a per cent that fellow took it to introduce me to Chaudhary. He was the middleman in between me and Chaudhary. He wanted half a per cent for himself. And I tried my best to tell Jaya-ji "Take two per cent." She said, "No, no, Jain, three per cent". She said, "Don't tell…unless and until they give three per cent." I said, "Okay, whatever you can…"

TEHELKA: So that was worth how much to you? Half a per cent of 600 crore?
R.K. JAIN: Nothing much.

[Both laugh]

TEHELKA: That's quite a lot of money.
R.K. JAIN: You see, the kind of…

TEHELKA (interrupts): Half a million dollars.
R.K. JAIN: Yeah. But you see, the place where you're sitting, you can make any amount of money you want. One deal of Sukhoi, one deal of air jet trainers and one big deal of submarines, or like…there was a…. In defence…deals are…all deals are, you know, 500 crore, 700 crore….

R.K. JAIN: Jaya Jaitly is the second wife. But not officially married to Jaya Jaitly. She's president of the party also. So there are two defence ministers. One is George Fernandes, another is Jaya Jaitly.

[Both laugh]

TEHELKA: That's cute. Very cute.
R.K. JAIN: And I am basically the front of Jaya Jaitly and George Fernandes. If you want, I can show you the minutes of the meetings. It is cyclostyled in our different conferences...national conferences, that whenever party needs money, Mr. Jain will have to arrange that money and give it to the party. That's the job of the national treasurer.

TEHELKA: Is there only one treasurer?
R.K. JAIN: Yeah. I can't say, "no". I am the only treasurer.

TEHELKA: How many funds...how much funds did you manage to generate for the party so far?
R.K. JAIN: Till now I think I'm worth…I have given them more than 50 crore rupees.

TEHELKA: Fifty crore rupees. And how much did you make for yourself? It's good business!

[Jain smiles. All laugh]

TEHELKA: No, he is our permanent consultant of West End International.
TEHELKA: Definitely, definitely. Yeah, yeah.

Time to move on from Jain. Coming to know that BJP President Bangaru Laxman had taken on himself the mantle of swinging corporate kickbacks, we looked at a way of approaching him in a costless manner. For a while RSS trustee R.K. Gupta was asking for a sum of Rs. 25 lakh for an introduction to Laxman and getting the job done. Sahni, the other defence middleman, himself had put a figure of Rs. 10 lakh. West End, obviously, had no budget of that kind. We talked to H.C. Pant. He offered first to take us to Saheb Singh Verma, BJP MP, who would then at a cost of Rs. 1 lakh take us to Laxman. Eventually, Pant sent Mohan Singh, PS to former Minister of State of Defence Harin Pathak, to introduce us to Raju Venkatesh, Laxman's personal secretary. Venkatesh introduces us to Laxman. Here's the first meeting.

{Tehelka gets up to go to the room of Mr.Bangaru Laxman ]

TEHELKA: Sir, I am from Westend International…
BANGARU LAXMAN: Hmm…hmm.

TEHELKA: So I am chief representative. It's written in my liaisoning this thing.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Hmm, hmm.

TEHELKA: …so we are interested in India investment. Around…we are interested in 2001 to 2002 around 5,000 crores. We already moved a proposal to PM that telling him that foreign direct investment. And we would like to introduce our night vision for defence….

[Pause]

TEHELKA: Can I show you? This is…this is the proposal.

[Camera moves up]

[Bangaru Laxman comes into frame]

TEHELKA: Sir, this is hand…. This is the material…. This is thermal…hand-held thermal camera.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Hmm…hmm.

TEHELKA: Already I talked to defence people…officers. Lt. Gen. Choudary.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Hmm.

TEHELKA: And Lt. Gen. Dhillon also.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Hmm.

TEHELKA: So they are willing to take our item. It is a very good item, compared to CSF-Thomson and El-Op. They…they are our compet…competitors. That everything is set up there. Now I need…uh…your favour to Defence Secretary.

BANGARU LAXMAN: I know him…but…no…at what stage the proposal is?
TEHELKA: The proposal is…if Defence Secretary will send the…al…. Already the file is with the Defence Secretary. Already users…that means they will decide which item they will use or not. So they'll send the file to Defence Secretary.

BANGARU LAXMAN: Hmm.
TEHELKA: So what should we do, thinking on these lines. So if Defence Secretary will agree, so our company will be short-listed. We will get around 60 crores of rupees order.

BANGARU LAXMAN: Hmm…who are the people who…who will help this?
TEHELKA: Yeah.

BANGARU LAXMAN: I mean, there must be some committee which must have gone in.
TEHELKA: No, that is they've approved. That PNC will open January first week. Before we have…. Sir, there is one reason I'll tell you very frankly, openly. So in the bureaucratic and in the political level, they will not allow in the third company into the fray. Reason, two companies are already supplying.

TEHELKA: I have met Mr. Gupta.
BANGARU LAXMAN: This I do not know because...

TEHELKA: No, sir. What will give…my identification? Mr. Gupta told me he arranged the meeting.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Leave Mr. Gupta.

TEHELKA: Okay, I will.
BANGARU LAXMAN: You have come directly.

TEHELKA: I have come directly. I have my credibility. My company's having the credibility. I don't need to meet through you, Mr. Gupta.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Okay, don't argue.

TEHELKA: Mr. Gupta told me, "I will think about it." So I said, "I am an Indian. I came directly to meet you."
BANGARU LAXMAN: He told you?

TEHELKA: There is…there is…no need. You do not ask company to do everything for you…every time. Sir, we have some…promotional projects. There is no problem…absolutely nothing? Hain! I am asking you?
BANGARU LAXMAN: No…I don't know how you…you came into his contact but….

TEHELKA: No. I contact that…they…they approached us. They told they are doing liaisoning work of BJP. That he...he is a trustee of RSS. So then Murli Madhavan told me that he talked to you for 10 lakhs. And you asked for 20 lakhs only…for this issue.… My boss came to know. "If Mr. BANGARU LAXMAN takes Rs. 20 lakh?" then he asked me not to give. That is the thing, sir, I want to need clarification. Sir, I can…I can…I can come directly to you? There is no need for party men.
BANGARU LAXMAN: You come direct. One day casually I asked him….

TEHELKA: Hmm…Yeah, yeah.
BANGARU LAXMAN: We have…he said.

[Bangaru Laxman appears in the frame for a few seconds and later the frame moves back to T.]

BANGARU LAXMAN: …He said how things we don't normally involve….I said okay.
TEHELKA: No, that. No, we have a lot of other things. Power projects and lot of things we have. You know, once we are starting from the binoculars. You know, several times he asked me, "I want to introduce.... I will go to introduce Mr. Bangaru…. Mr. BANGARU LAXMAN." I said this, "I am an Indian. I don't know Hindi very well." So I said, "Yes, I am an Indian. I can go directly meet…meet him. I have the company credibility there. Company's just like…bigger than Tata. You know, I can go directly to meet Mr. BANGARU LAXMAN. He can understand my position. Isn't it?"

BANGARU LAXMAN: Accha.
TEHELKA: Isn't it? There is…I don't need any commitment from you also.

BANGARU LAXMAN: All right. Meeting was set. I'm your…

[Frame shifts back and forth.]

TEHELKA: All right. …Satya...
BANGARU LAXMAN: Directly contact me.

TEHELKA: Hmm?
BANGARU LAXMAN: Talk directly.
TEHELKA: Hmm.

BANGARU LAXMAN: First he [Sathyamurthi] will fix up appointment.
TEHELKA: Yeah.

TEHELKA: Sir, can…can I give you one lakh rupees for it? For a token. My…

[Sound of door opening and closing. Somebody enters and says something to Bangaru Laxman offscreen and leaves.]

TEHELKA: Sir, my boss is here. In…in…a…in Oberoi executive...executive suite.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Accha.

TEHELKA: So he also wants to meet you.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Accha.

TEHELKA: So, can you arrange the appointment tomorrow? Can you arrange?
BANGARU LAXMAN: Tomorrow?

TEHELKA: Hmm. So….

[Camera shifts towards Bangaru Laxman]

TEHELKA: So he will come and meet you. So will you…uh…what I told to Mr. Satya that matter.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Hmm.

[Bangaru is fully in the frame now]

TEHELKA: For the party fund.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Hmm.

TEHELKA: I have five lakh rupees.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Hmm.

TEHELKA: And today I will give you one lakh rupees. For just the beginning. A New Year gift.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Hmm, hmm.

TEHELKA: Okay? But…but…but, tell me, sir, very frankly, Mr. R.K. GUPTA told me he arranged the meeting. Outside the….

BANGARU LAXMAN: I do not know what exactly transpired between you and him. He just…he was mentioning….
TEHELKA: Okay.

BANGARU LAXMAN: (quoting R.K. GUPTA): "Sir, are you interested in that work? Would you entertain?" I said he's already met me and…

[Camera shifts towards Tehelka]

[Tehelka takes out wads of currency notes and hands them over to Bangaru Laxman]

TEHELKA: Sir, this is a small gift… small gift.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Oh, no, no…
TEHELKA: It's a small gift for the New Year party. Right?

[Frame again shifts towardsBangaru Laxman]

[Bangaru Laxman opens the drawer, takes money from Tehelkaand puts it away]

TEHELKA: New Year party fund, hain? One lakh rupee, hain?

[Pause]

TEHELKA: So what time can I call my boss here?
BANGARU LAXMAN: Tomorrow…hmm…

[T's mobile phone rings]

BANGARU LAXMAN: …Five o'clock.
TEHELKA: Yeah, in five o'clock. In here?

TEHELKA: And then…rupee.
BANGARU LAXMAN: When do you…?

TEHELKA: Tomorrow. Rupee or dollar?
BANGARU LAXMAN: Dollars. You can give dollars.

TEHELKA: Okay. We can give you dollars. Sir, we need your blessing.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Okay.

TEHELKA: Okay. I will not take Mr. R.K. GUPTA to…. I can come directly to you. Anytime I need I will make appointment with Mr Satyamurthy. Okay?

[Bangaru Laxman rises. They shake hands.]

TEHELKA: I'm Alvin D'Souza.
TEHELKA: And he is…Mr. BANGARU LAXMAN, president, party in power. They are the ruling party. The biggest political party.
BANGARU LAXMAN: You are based in…?

TEHELKA: Based in London. We have interests in Telecom, Power, Aviation and Defence, obviously. We are trying to get a foothold in the Indian defence market through hand-held thermal cameras. Night vision. And if there's a prospect of something in…we'll be prepared to do it at a very no-profit basis if it gives us an entry into the Indian market. In that sense. We just wanted your blessings on the project. And Mathew's telling me there's a slight problem in that.

TEHELKA: Yeah, yeah, sir. What is the problem? I told Mr. Krishna also this matter. There is basically one Israeli company there. So they are basically El-Op, El-Op. So one Mr. Brajesh…Mr. Brajesh Mishra, that principal secretary to PM, he is supporting that company very, very openly. So you know at that time, you know, he won't allow that third company in the picture.

TEHELKA: So that is not that formidable a problem.
TEHELKA: Exactly, exactly…I said…yeah, yeah.
TEHELKA (interrupts): You can solve it.

TEHELKA: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I, I convinced my boss that Mr. BANGARU LAXMAN can give that, the political cover in this matter.

[Pause]

TEHELKA: Did you show him our brochures?
TEHELKA: Yeah, yeah. I did.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Yes, I've seen.

[Pause]

TEHELKA: And did you see any other things that…basically how to approach it? Considerable work has been done on the users side…military…they all liked the product. And they foresee no problems in it going through. It's the fourth generation.
BANGARU LAXMAN: (interrupts): …on Brajesh Mishra? How?
TEHELKA: That…that defence people told me, that officers told me, that bureaucrats also told me this matter.

[Pause]

TEHELKA: Do you see that as…
BANGARU LAXMAN: You see, also there is the PNC [Price Negotiation Committee]? Tehelka: Sir, there is a PNC there but there is lot of process there before PNC. You know they have to first…evaluation, and then short-listing, and then the PNC will come. You know, they are not allowed to…third party inside that…in the evaluation. That is a…

[Pause]

TEHELKA: Are you experienced with defence matters generally?
BANGARU LAXMAN: (nods in assurance): Hmm. No, my experience is…

[Pause]

TEHELKA: Mr. R.K. Gupta told me on that day, I told you, na?
BANGARU LAXMAN: Hmm.

TEHELKA (continues): That through you, sir, he can break that one. I said, "I don't, I don't want to…I don't need any third party to meet Mr. Bangaru Laxman I can go directly to meet Mr. Bangaru." So he asked me 20 lakhs for the meeting to you. I said, "If…but in front of me I cannot…I can give that money to Mr. Bangaru Laxman in a party fund." Sir, that, that also I told Satya also we are ready to give 4 to 5 per cent as commission. [Laxman nods] Political commission. That other…that we have to give…rest of that we have to give separate.

TEHELKA: Do we do it with the treasurer? I don't know how do we proceed in this. Do we wire transfer the money?
BANGARU LAXMAN: Yeah, yeah. I will tell you….
TEHELKA: Okay.

[Pause]

TEHELKA: Do you see any problems in that? I mean, we…we are not saying that…that this has to happen, in the sense that it's sacramount. But even if we have a 25 per cent chance, we're willing to take the risk.
BANGARU LAXMAN: (nodding): That's true.

TEHELKA: So tell me what exactly is the procedure? If you could just tell me the details.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Look…no. Probably you may be knowing the procedure better than me.

TEHELKA: Yeah, yeah. That's why I was here. But things don't move in India without some political….
BANGARU LAXMAN: Yes, that is true, provided…. We shall try to do that…
TEHELKA: Yeah.

[Pause]

BANGARU LAXMAN: (continuing): So far we have been taking the help of Brajesh Mishra to organise this because Brajesh Mishra is there on a number of committees apart from Principal Secretary to Prime Minister.
TEHELKA: Okay.

BANGARU LAXMAN: And any defence issues, he is…
TEHELKA: Yeah!

BANGARU LAXMAN: (continuing): We normally turn to him because he has access to the Defence, Foreign and other related ministries.
TEHELKA: Yeah.

BANGARU LAXMAN: But in this you said that somebody…
TEHELKA: Yeah. I don't know how true that thing is. I mean, it's just that somebody told us. It could be wrong. We're not sure.

BANGARU LAXMAN: Yes. I will…(nods)
TEHELKA: And basically, is he the only person with influence? I'm sure you carry more influence than him.

BANGARU LAXMAN: It's like…. No, he deals with the bureaucracy….
TEHELKA: Okay.

BANGARU LAXMAN: (continuing): And also conveys the views of the bureaucracy to Prime Minister. So he is the liaison between the bureaucracy and the Prime Minister Tehelka: Prime Minister. Okay.

BANGARU LAXMAN: So…therefore, whatever we tell to Prime Minister, he also normally have a word with Mishra.
TEHELKA: Okay.

BANGARU LAXMAN: And then certain things he will say that "No, no, you convey this to Mishra…"
TEHELKA: Okay.

BANGARU LAXMAN (continuing): "…You pass on this information to Mishra…." That's how things here….
TEHELKA: Okay. So basically he is the lynchpin in all the dealings?

[Laxman nods]

BANGARU LAXMAN: He is. But I'll find out all this information.
TEHELKA: Okay.

BANGARU LAXMAN (continuing): But since this is a…the superior thing, I think they shouldn't have any kind of…
Tehelka (completing Laxman's sentence): Major roadblock on it?

[Laxman nods]

TEHELKA: Okay.
BANGARU LAXMAN: At…in any case, I'll…. What would be the total worth of the…?
TEHELKA: It could be anything above 200 crores, as they say. So about 50 million dollars to 60 million dollars. But then, if you give us the whole order, then that's, like, much more. It'll go up to, like, 600 [crore], so that would be about, I guess, 180 million dollars or something. Two hundred million dollars.

[Laxman nods]

TEHELKA (continuing): That's…that's …it's much easier for us to transfer funds abroad than deal within India on a day-to-day basis. So we'll come to know tomorrow or something? Is there…you don't deal with…. There's a Mr. Ranjan Bhattacharya also, I'm told. Is he also important?
BANGARU LAXMAN: Well, he is a family member of Prime Minister.
TEHELKA: Okay.

BANGARU LAXMAN: And…he does something. But these things I don't think he will get involved.
TEHELKA: Accha. I was told that he's got a…I mean, lots of projects and all being moved. I don't know how far it's true….

BANGARU LAXMAN: Maybe. I don't say that he might be involving himself in many other things. But as far as defence things are concerned, I don't think he has much.
TEHELKA: Yeah.

BANGARU LAXMAN: Somewhat in power projects. This and that.
TEHELKA: Yeah. I believe in Enron he had a major hand to play. And would it be like…their accounts, I believe….I mean which banking nerve centers do you operate in? Do you use Zurich or which cities do you use?

BANGARU LAXMAN: You have to consult our treasurer who will be dealing with this.
TEHELKA: Okay.

BANGARU LAXMAN: I will have to find out from him first. I have taken over recently. I was not dealing with these matters earlier…
TEHELKA: Okay.

BANGARU LAXMAN: (continuing): …when I was in party. So I will have to check up from him. In such cases what…
TEHELKA: Okay.

BANGARU LAXMAN: And so far, you have yet to start. Certain things are in…still in the pipeline. That through establish agent who maintains a liaison with the supplier and also with the government.
TEHELKA: Okay.

BANGARU LAXMAN (continuing): And government, through us.
TEHELKA: Yeah.

[Sound of door opening and closing]

TEHELKA: Yeah, no, no.

BANGARU LAXMAN: Therefore, I will….
TEHELKA: Okay, but who'd be the main person we deal with? I mean, would you give us a point man? We will deal with him.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Oh sure.

TEHELKA: Is Satya okay?
BANGARU LAXMAN: No, not Satya.
TEHELKA: Not Satya? Okay.

BANGARU LAXMAN: We will, I will give you…

TEHELKA: Okay.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Let me get in touch with those people. I will tell you tomorrow. I will find out from my treasurer and I will let you know.

TEHELKA: Okay. So should we meet again tomorrow? Possible? Some time tomorrow?
BANGARU LAXMAN: Yes. You will ring me and then you come?

TEHELKA: Yeah? It will be more convenient. We were supposed to convey some money today and as you can understand my problem…getting dollars was a little hassly and we didn't get it the way we want. So is it possible that I could come tomorrow with the dollars?

BANGARU LAXMAN: Yeah, yeah.
TEHELKA: Yeah? So what time around? Should we give you a call and come?

BANGARU LAXMAN: Yeah.
TEHELKA: So, will you get that piece of information by tomorrow?

BANGARU LAXMAN: I hope so. At least the system…
TEHELKA: At least the system, the whole general picture of it.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Okay.

TEHELKA: I'm told you have possibilities of becoming the first Indian Dalit Prime Minister. Is that true?

[Pause; Laxman laughs]

TEHELKA: Then we'll meet tomorrow, right, sir? Thanks a lot, thank you…it was a very nice pleasure meeting you.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Thank you.

TEHELKA: So, if that, Bangaru's channel will operate it, haan? There is any conflict will start?
SATHYAMURTHI: No, nothing. Nothing.

TEHELKA: No problem at all?
SATHYAMURTHI: Absolutely no problem.

TEHELKA: Yesterday Mr. Bangaru given the impression that the defence work of BJP is doing Mr. Brajesh Mishra.
SATHYAMURTHI: Yeah.

TEHELKA: Through him he will do? You know any…anything?
SATHYAMURTHI: There's all one team, I'll tell you. Mr. Laxman, Brajesh and the man who looks after our financial things.

TEHELKA: Okay.
SATHYAMURTHI: We are supposed to meet our financial man today. After we meet Bangaru-ji also. He'll tell the same thing, "You go with Sathyamurthi and deliver the thing there."

TEHELKA: Who's he?
SATHYAMURTHI (continuing): That we'll decide. And I'll meet him now. Because to meet you only I came here. Because I cannot talk from the office. You know that well.

TEHELKA: Okay.Tell me very frankly, what I have to…to meet whom? No, you are taking me...but what is his name?
SATHYAMURTHI: Who?

TEHELKA: That you're going to introduce.
SATHYAMURTHI: No, no, it may not be necessary also.

TEHELKA: Otherwise I will not come.
SATHYAMURTHI: No, no, he is our…one Mr. Ved Prakash Goyal.
TEHELKA: Hmm.

SATHYAMURTHI: Ved Prakash Goyal.
TEHELKA: Ved Prakash Goyal. He is a…

SATHYAMURTHI: He is a treasurer of the party nowadays.
TEHELKA: Okay.

SATHYAMURTHI: And in the end we taken Gupta…R.K. Gupta.
TEHELKA: Okay, okay. Gupta is playing the game he started.

SATHYAMURTHI: Yes. Yesterday I discussed it with my treasurer. He asked me to screw him and…
TEHELKA: Gupta is…Gupta's phone…I had reached Delhi. When I entered into Delhi… I got four times Gupta's call.

SATHYAMURTHI: Don't pick up.
TEHELKA: If he will create any problem, that is not my mistake. I'm telling you that is the mistake of you and your boss.

SATHYAMURTHI: He will not create any problem. Because his thing is in it. He is in our hands.
TEHELKA: That is good.

SATHYAMURTHI: He won't do any mischief.
TEHELKA: Hain?
SATHYAMURTHI: He cannot play mischief with us.

TEHELKA: No, he done lot of deals, that is true, through Mr. Bangaru. He has done lot of deals…in defence deals.
SATHYAMURTHI: I know, nobody else knows that in my office.

TEHELKA: Okay.
SATHYAMURTHI: That's what…

TEHELKA: But he told me that he will give the money to Mr. Bangaru also, party fund also.
SATHYAMURTHI: And he has to give, he has to give ultimately.

TEHELKA: Okay.What he done the last big deal? Can you give any information?
SATHYAMURTHI: No, that I cannot tell.

TEHELKA: No, tell me that. I want to know about him. He told me he is a big shot.
SATHYAMURTHI: Yes, yes.

TEHELKA: Okay, fine. That's fine. My boss yesterday also asked Mr. Bangaru…about you. I can fix the deal with my…officers can fix the deal with Mr. Satya. He said, "Yes". Now Mr. Gupta told me he done the deal of Sukhoi-30 in India. That is true?
SATHYAMURTHI: It is true.

TEHELKA: Gupta told me. It's a big deal, na?
SATHYAMURTHI: They were here about a month back. Sukhoi. Nobody knows that in my office. They know that some delegation has come.

TEHELKA: Okay.
SATHYAMURTHI: Because myself and Mr. Laxman, we operated...

TEHELKA: That Sukhoi very well....

SATHYAMURTHI: We operated very…nobody, nobody can smell.
TEHELKA: Okay, fine.

SATHYAMURTHI: That's what you've seen in our office, you know we're very normal.
TEHELKA: Okay.

SATHYAMURTHI: It's like a very small needle behind that kind of a congested place, and we are very cautious.

TEHELKA: That money entire…go to the party?
SATHYAMURTHI: Yeah. Even the money, what you giving, we give it to the party. We won't take it.

TEHELKA: No, Mr. Gupta, he said. Yesterday Mr. Bangaru told me that he will give his overseas accounts also.
SATHYAMURTHI: That is a second part. I'll tell you.

TEHELKA: He told me that "I will give the overseas." You have any accounts overseas? I can open an account for you.
SATHYAMURTHI: I'm doing it in London now.

TEHELKA: Okay.
SATHYAMURTHI: I've told my friend.

TEHELKA: Is very fast. It will not take time. That is a big benefit for….
SATHYAMURTHI: Hmm.

TEHELKA: The Sukhoi, party got how many percentage?
SATHYAMURTHI: It's a good job.

TEHELKA: Hain!
SATHYAMURTHI: It's a good job. More than seven, nearly eight per cent.

TEHELKA: Seven, eight per cent. You got? How much you got?
SATHYAMURTHI: I am quite happy!

TEHELKA: Sukhoi is a historical deal, baba!
SATHYAMURTHI: Yes.

TEHELKA: 34,000 crores of rupees. So did Mr. Gupta get?
SATHYAMURTHI: Gupta is also involved.

TEHELKA: Gupta…and Sudeep Chaudhary also involved?
SATHYAMURTHI: He is not, he is not the only one. It is a group work. It is teamwork.

TEHELKA: That Mohinder Pal Sahni involved?
SATHYAMURTHI: Yes.

TEHELKA: He was?
SATHYAMURTHI: Yeah!

TEHELKA: Really?
SATHYAMURTHI: Yes, I have a…he and him. I have not met him. I have not met him. Because I am not close to many people.

TEHELKA: Yeah, Mr. Mohinder Pal Sahni approached me a lot of times. He will do the work through Mr. Bangaru, like that. See, I am an Indian, I am not a foreigner, I can come and directly meet you. If I will give Mr. Gupta for a Rs. 10 lakh. He will not give 10 lakh to your boss.
SATHYAMURTHI: Not necessarily. Actually I will tell you.

TEHELKA: Hmm.
SATHYAMURTHI: It's only…we have a very good hold on this. What yesterday I was telling you.

TEHELKA: Okay.
SATHYAMURTHI: Because after P.V. Narasimha Rao, he is the only South Indian who is involved in this.
TEHELKA: Yeah!

SATHYAMURTHI: And this kind of deals in India only South Indians can do. Nobody else can do.
TEHELKA: That is true! True fact.

SATHYAMURTHI: We do in a very systematic way and we are the trusted people. Maybe our charges may be one or two per cent higher than…
TEHELKA: Yeah! Yeah!

SATHYAMURTHI: But we don't cheat people.
TEHELKA: No, no. You know, if we can go through one or two percent, that is not a problem. I am telling very frankly. But our work should have the best.

SATHYAMURTHI: First we'll short-list it. And this, if you give him the dollars today…so that your, your credibility will increase.
TEHELKA: Okay, today I'll give the dollars.

SATHYAMURTHI: Okay. Security money.
TEHELKA: $31, 500 I will give you.

SATHYAMURTHI: It's six o'clock, he'll be free.
TEHELKA: Hmm. Yeah.

SATHYAMURTHI: I'll make sure that he meets you there…10-15…you know. You meet Bangaru-ji. Depends on his suggestion. If it is necessary, we can…

TEHELKA: Mr. Bangaru, how many accounts in foreign? One or two?
SATHYAMURTHI: He must be having five, six.

TEHELKA: Five, six?
SATHYAMURTHI: Different places.

TEHELKA: In his own and party? In his own? Fine. In Swiss bank, there is no problem, we can transfer any time. We can have, we can have…wire transfer.
SATHYAMURTHI: What I was planning to do…actually I was supposed to go to Thailand last week.

TEHELKA: Okay, okay.
SATHYAMURTHI: During that time I was supposed to do that.
TEHELKA: Okay.

MAJ.GEN. MURGAI: Come, I am bringing together two industrialists…

[They all laugh and shake hands]

SURENDRA SULEKHA: Sit, sit.
TEHELKA: Yeah, yeah.

MAJ.GEN. MURGAI (introducing): He is one of the top industrialists of Kanpur, Mr. Surendra Sulekha.

TEHELKA: Now we need a political cover.
SURENDRA SULEKHA: Political cover, what? What work is there?

TEHELKA: Work is that, if the company…two or four companies were short-listed…
SURENDRA SULEKHA: Hmm.

TEHELKA: The final decision will taken by the Ministry of Defence.
SURENDRA SULEKHA: Hmm.

TEHELKA: That means George…Mr. George Fernandes.
SURENDRA SULEKHA: Hmm.

TEHELKA: So that time…is the channel to George Fernandes is Mrs.Jaya Jaitly.
SURENDRA SULEKHA: Hmm.

TEHELKA: She will…she is the briefcase woman.
SURENDRA SULEKHA: Hmm.

TEHELKA: So we want to fix that.
SURENDRA SULEKHA: Tell me what is the work…what work you want to ask?

TEHELKA: This is the first work. This is the first work. The user side already I can say. And bureaucrats also, it's not a problem. And now the thing is with the…
SURENDRA SULEKHA: From there, there will be no problem. I take guarantee.

TEHELKA: Yeah. So we can give them at…that normal practice of commission there in the political side.
SURENDRA SULEKHA: Hmm.

TEHELKA: Around three to 3.5 and four. That is that MNCs are paying.
Multinational…foreign companies are paying. For beginning. No-profit, no-loss. I can go to five.

MAJ. GEN. MURGAI (pointing to Sulekha): You have a deal with him. He will get your letter issued for evaluation.
TEHELKA: Okay.

MAJ. GEN. MURGAI: Matter finished. So there are two separate contracts. At the moment…
TEHELKA: Hmm.

MAJ. GEN. MURGAI: …evaluation.
TEHELKA: Hmm.

MAJ.GEN. MURGAI: It is his [pointing to Sulekha] responsibility. He will get it done.
TEHELKA: Okay.

MAJ. GEN. MURGAI: His means...I will wherever my contacts...I will help him out.
TEHELKA: Okay.

MAJ. GEN. MURGAI: Okay? One contract over, you can be at ease. The only thing is when Choudary sends the letter, give a copy of it to him.
TEHELKA: Okay.

MAJ. GEN. MURGAI: And your…there will be no stoppage of your work from the ministry.
TEHELKA: Okay. Okay.

MAJ. GEN. MURGAI: That contract is over at the moment.
TEHELKA: Hmm.

MAJ. GEN. MURGAI: For long-term basis…
TEHELKA: Hmm.

TEHELKA: In this evaluation process, what you are expecting?
SURENDRA SULEKHA: You just tell me…what…what I will expect? You know your work better than me. Okay? You just offer. I'll ask the concerned person.
MAJ.GEN. MURGAI: That is…you take care of it. Yaar, see...